RE: NTR

#4
It invokes strong emotions. Just like cannibalism, incest, guro, etc. etc.
The worst NTR has to be where the boy/girl still loves the previous boy/girl.
It's difficult to use it as a tool because to make it satisfying, the retaliation must be swift in coming as well as painful and lethal. Well, lethal is not necessary if there is maiming and crippling to the extent that it is worse than death.
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RE: NTR

#5
'RynerLute' pid='209461' dateline='1432119071' Wrote: NTR, why do people like it or like using it for 'drama'? Your opinions on NTR use in stories? and has there been a good or great use of NTR in a story?


Sorry for the necro of an old thread but as I am writing and reading a lot more recently I have become more active on this site. 

What is NTR?
 

I tried to search for it but it does not meet the 4 letter search requirement and I found a bunch of things that are unrelated on the internet.  Is there maybe a forum post that has a listing of abbreviations for us old timers who don't know?

RE: NTR

#6
It means netorare, another term taken from the japanese language. In short, netorare is defined as the taking of one's lover, or love interest in general- often from the MC. Related terms, cuckold & netori.
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RE: NTR

#7
'j0nn0' pid='805961' dateline='1474773641' Wrote: It means netorare, another term taken from the japanese language. In short, netorare is defined as the taking of one's lover, or love interest in general- often from the MC. Related terms, cuckold & netori.

Oh, well, thank you for explaining that.  I enjoy a good manga or anime now and then but I guess my interest stayed in the PG area so I am unfamiliar with some of the references on this site.  I will try to keep my questions to a minimum, thanks for the quick response.

RE: NTR

#8
'Regnar' pid='805969' dateline='1474774061' Wrote:
'j0nn0' pid='805961' dateline='1474773641' Wrote: It means netorare, another term taken from the japanese language. In short, netorare is defined as the taking of one's lover, or love interest in general- often from the MC. Related terms, cuckold & netori.

Oh, well, thank you for explaining that.  I enjoy a good manga or anime now and then but I guess my interest stayed in the PG area so I am unfamiliar with some of the references on this site.  I will try to keep my questions to a minimum, thanks for the quick response.

'Regnar' pid='805969' dateline='1474774061' Wrote:
'j0nn0' pid='805961' dateline='1474773641' Wrote: It means netorare, another term taken from the japanese language. In short, netorare is defined as the taking of one's lover, or love interest in general- often from the MC. Related terms, cuckold & netori.

Oh, well, thank you for explaining that.  I enjoy a good manga or anime now and then but I guess my interest stayed in the PG area so I am unfamiliar with some of the references on this site.  I will try to keep my questions to a minimum, thanks for the quick response.

No worries Regnar; there's a ton of people who have no clue what NTR is on the site here.  Honestly, I'm not certain what it represents in regard to RRL reader's expectations.  

From what I've always understood the term to mean, it basically breaks down to:

1) A couple in love.  Usually this is a guy and a super sweet, innocent virgin.
2) Someone shows up, stealing one person from that couple.  (Usually a new guy steals the woman.)
3) Via some action, the partner becomes mindlessly loyal to the thief.  (A lot of times, the new guy is soooo good at sex, the woman can't resist him any longer.  Sometimes pills, drugs, or magic is used to help enforce this feeling for the woman.)
4) Suddenly the new guy parades his new woman-pet around, and taunts the first guy (her original lover).  He kisses in public, gropes her breast, insinuates much more perverted things that the woman was too "pure and innocent" to even think about before, but won't argue over now...
5) Guy realizes he's worthless and can't do anything to help his woman.

A complicated, and specific setup to generate feelings of hopelessness and anguish in the reader via the original guy's point of view...




Which doesn't fit my experience with what people call NTR here on RRL at all.  In my story Dreambreaker, I have all of TWO characters in it. (Wwe're at the beginning of the story and not dealing with anything but the relationship between two characters.)

Oddly enough, I've had reviews, PMs, and comments on posts with the story telling me that it sucks because of the NTR in it!

WTH?!

Who was the girl stolen from?  What couple was broken apart?  How talented a writer am I, that I can pull off a three-character dynamic with only two characters?!

What definition are people using, when they brandish that term NTR around here?

The best answer I've came up with is that on the RRL forums here, NTR has broadened its definition to encompass all sorts of negative tropes/situations.

Have a sweet, innocent girl lose that innocence?  That's NTR, according to some people.
Have a girl go out and cheat on the guy -- even if their partner is indifferent and doesn't care?  That's NTR, according to some.
Have a guy go out and cheat on the girl -- whether she cares or not?  That's NOT NTR.  That's just a "harem setting"...
Rape?   That's NTR.
A girl trying to date two guys?  That's NTR.
A guy with six girls, he's juggling all at the same time?  That's fine.  That's harem.  We like harems...

Basically, it seems to me anytime a girl loses her innocence to someone who's not the main character, it's called NTR here on RRL.  Anytime a girl likes someone who isn't the main character, that's NTR -- whether the main character likes her in return or not!  

BUT, the standard doesn't seem to apply in reverse.  Do what you want to the guy.  That's just mean, but not NTR.  Let him like every girl in existence, and he's just a horny teen -- "an honest portrayal of what most guys would be."

NTR in RRL, from my personal experience with readers, seems to indicate that it's something different than the standard definition I'm used to.  

And, like you, I'm still struggling to determine exactly what it encompasses here.  Some people see it in the narrow structure I always learned it represented.  Others have a much vaguer concept of what it is.  

NTR is a word with the definition in transition -- this is my honest belief.

RE: NTR

#9
Hahaha...

Yeah, I agree with Darkbringer. NTR's definition is "changing". It no longer follows the typical tropes to be considered as NTR which revolves around rape. I think it's just ignorance about the meaning of NTR.

Actually, if you apply the new definition of NTR in every literature and movies, you'll find that some of them would qualify.

For example: In A song of ice and fire, Robert Baratheon was NTR'd by Lyanna (with Prince Rhaegar) and Cersei (with Jaime) and in the movie Pearl Harbor - Rafe was NTR'd by his best friend. Danny even had a child with Rafe's fiance.

*Facepalm*
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RE: NTR

#10
No. Just no. The second I see a story have ntr is The second I jump ship. Sure I understand that some authors do this to get an emotional response from readers, but i read stories for the fun of it not for emotional responses.

And those stories nice enough to tell me it has ntr in the summary? I avoid those like the plauge.

RE: NTR

#11
'Darkbringer' pid='807141' dateline='1474873778' Wrote: Have a sweet, innocent girl lose that innocence?  That's NTR, according to some people.

Wait. Seriously? I thought I know what NTR means. In my dictionary, not even cheating is NTR.
Is stepping on grasses NTR now or what?

RE: NTR

#12
'Out Of This' pid='815529' dateline='1475859900' Wrote:
'Darkbringer' pid='807141' dateline='1474873778' Wrote: Have a sweet, innocent girl lose that innocence?  That's NTR, according to some people.

Wait. Seriously? I thought I know what NTR means. In my dictionary, not even cheating is NTR.
Is stepping on grasses NTR now or what?

Check it out for yourself: http://royalroadl.com/fiction/6688  

My little dark story, "Dreambreaker".  It's only a few chapters at the moment, as I work on it sporadically, but it basically has a knight-girl who is given a duty: Go serve The Darkness.   Turns out, The Darkness is an ancient male being that just sits around and does nothing much except sit around.

Her two duties as assigned by The Darkness?  "Fetch me a beer"  -- an impossible task for the area where she's at -- and "be here every night so I can indulge in your body".  

Now, an argument can be made here that this IS a rape scenario.  Even though the girl is submitting to her duty, it's not something she wants to do.  Honestly, I'd be really curious about whether a court would find such actions guilty even as rape.  It's kind of forced, as it's an assigned duty that she feels she must complete for the betterment of her people, but at the same time, she's accepting of that duty...

I don't personally think it'd ever result in a "guilty" verdict in a court of law, but some people feel like it's still sufficient enough for them to call it rape.

****************

And, there's been multiple reviews where people have rated the story 0.5 stars for NTR.  

There were three down at the bottom of the review list which were all from NTR being evil and thus the story deserving it, but two of them have disappeared.  (Whether by me drawing attention to how silly they were and the original reviewer removing them, or by some quirk of the new system, I don't know.)

The one that remains is almost relevant to the story:

Quote:DISAPPOINTED.

BY YEAVON 8/18/2016, 11:12:07 PM
Ntr always gets this rating from me same with rape and other stuff like it regardless of how good a story it may or may not be.

The story does contain a debatable rape element and "other stuff like it", so I suppose it's suitable for a review.  The other two reviews were almost exactly the same except they only stated, "Ntr always gets this rating".

It's a story with TWO characters.  NTR takes a three-character dynamic.  

And yet, I'm so brilliant a writer, I can do it with that third character not even being there!  My READER must be the third element in the scenario, and I'm stealing their pure, innocent fantasy girl from them, leading them to feelings of emotional turmoil and despair.

The Darkness NTRed the girl from The Reader!!

I'm frigging brilliant as an author to pull that off!   :D

RE: NTR

#13
Well, the comment review you quoted was downvoted to hell, so let's be positive for there are still many understanding people out there.
And the way you put it seems right. If you could invoking that despair in the readers with your writing, when being fully intentional, doesn't that mean you succeed? You've done your part, everything else is about how people judge it. There's no system involving free will that can control this.

But really, make me wonder how a term like NTR got flung around in rrl in the first place. It should only belong in porn and masturbation fantasy - not fantasy in otherworldly fantasy, but in the twisted thing in people's mind.

RE: NTR

#14
I think we should be entitled to what we, the writers, want to write. It's just up to the readers whether they'll read it or not. 
If not, then alright. Everyone has different tastes. The idea of pleasing almost everyone is kind of a tall order if you think about it long enough. 

But I don't really have deep knowledge about NTR (nor do I have any of it in my works), just that it's part of the roller coaster of emotions that's needed to make certain stories 'good' in a sense. 
Maybe it's because there are certain stories that can't be told properly without that 'one' scene that will invoke a readers emotion, be it happy, sad or angry. 

I think I've heard some people review books, saying that some stuff similar to NTR were used pretty effectively, but not excessively, so I can't really decide myself whether NTR should be a thing here or not.    

This is just my opinion, so don't purge me alright?
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