I feel like it's one thing that's missing from a lot of stories. Sure, there are often tragic backstories or loss or a sense of wonder/exploration, but all of it feels fairly superficial to me. My own story (The Gam3) lacks in this regard, though I'm now trying to figure out a way to remedy this.
 
At the same time, though, I guess maybe that's not why a lot of people come to read Litrpg, they want levels and powerups, wish fulfillment, but still I feel like emotion should be a deeper part of any story. At the same time, I know that I'm pretty young as a college student, and suspect a lot of writers are fairly young (or are young authors), so maybe it's just something that comes with time.
 
Also, the only ways to bring up emotional depth that I can really think of are somewhat deep personal issues, even controversial ones, and I feel like by trying to add the depth that I want I might end up alienating some portion of my readership; I don't want to tell the normal hero's journey, good vs evil or a love story, they've been done enough and I think others can probably do that better, though I definitely will borrow parts of them.
 

I don't want to be too heavy handed and turn my story somehow into a drama, yet at the same time I don't want to be robotic (though I do think apathy is a real theme/emotional topic that I sort of want to explore.) Thoughts on how to do emotions well?

"How to do emotions well?"
This question strikes me as odd, especially from an author that's well into a story.

Emotions, to me, can range from a burning rage to crying, (from being emotionless, to having all the love in the world) but I think you're referring to a sappy scene where the reader bursts into tears, right?

The only thing that really gets The Yandere Darkling to tear up is a goal, finally reached (and the characters involved deserved to reach it.)

'Chiisutofupuru' pid='523929' dateline='1455013055' Wrote: "How to do emotions well?"
This question strikes me as odd, especially from an author that's well into a story.

Emotions, to me, can range from a burning rage to crying, (from being emotionless, to having all the love in the world) but I think you're referring to a sappy scene where the reader bursts into tears, right?

The only thing that really gets The Yandere Darkling to tear up is a goal, finally reached (and the characters involved deserved to reach it.)

Maybe I should rephrase as how to do it better :P. I think what I'm really trying to go for is something that strikes a chord with a reader, that resonates with them, and makes people feel. Maybe I'm trying to go for too much.

'Ephemerality' pid='523973' dateline='1455016486' Wrote: Maybe I should rephrase as how to do it better :P. I think what I'm really trying to go for is something that strikes a chord with a reader, that resonates with them, and makes people feel. Maybe I'm trying to go for too much.

Ah, I see.
Well, there are three things I can think of. One is to try and eliminate your use of Filter Words/Filtering.
*took a glance at your chapter named: 'hacking?' and found a few*

Not a fan of Passive Voice either.

(((Also, a weak word: That usage of the word 'began' is annoying)))

^Filtering and using passive voice distances your readers from your characters.^

The last thing you can look into is adding similes and metaphors to create imagery...
(((Though, The Yandere Darkling generally avoids using similes and metaphors. *Not recommended*)))

I'd say that creating powerful scenes work. Details also make or break the scene. Build it up, slowly then let it crash. The emotions I mean.


Then again, I don't know shit about writing so I really shouldn't comment.

A lot depends on what your goals with the site here is.  

'BlaiseCorvin' pid='524219' dateline='1455031831' Wrote: He said you should never be afraid to hurt your characters.  He said one of the biggest differences between a real writer and a fanfic writer is that a fanfic writer loves their characters too much to hurt them.

Take what Corvin wrote above, and think about it for a moment.  Fanfic writers don't hurt their characters, is basically what it's saying.  RoyalRoadL is basically a fanfic website.  A lot of readers here don't want their characters to be hurt at all.

I write The 8th Day.  Last week it had 1767 followers.  Then one of the characters died in the story.  Overnight the number of followers dropped down to 1750.  The 8th Day is a story where one of the main characters dies and is resurrected over and over -- death has been proven to not be an irreversible state for the characters, and yet over a dozen followers quit the series when one of the characters died.

Write a story with emotional emphasis, and people here will complain telling you to get on with the action!  "They need to go kill something and level up!"  A lot of the readers on the site here simply want mindless escapism where they can indulge in a hero who is smarter, more powerful, and better than anyone else.  The want escapism, not emotionalism.  

If you want to focus on emotions, do so.  Just do so with the stubborn will to ignore a lot of the comments people will give you.  Write for yourself, and not the people who simply frequent fanfic sites like this one.  Don't be afraid to share your work here; just take everything people says about it with a grain of salt.  

As BlaiseCorvin pointed out, so succinctly,  there's a divide between what people expect from fanfic sites and real novels.  You need to decide first which you want to write for.  If you're writing a novel, or writing for yourself, use as much emotion as you feel is necessary to tell your story and get people to understand the feelings of your characters.  If you're looking for top position on the site here (whether weekly, monthly, or overall), you'll need to be careful about 'hurting your characters.'.  

People here want escapism, not drama, tragedy, or emotions to deal with.  The only emotions that seem to get views is, "Haha! I pawned you, sucker!  Feel my uber wrath of revenge!!"...

'Darkbringer' pid='524517' dateline='1455047495' Wrote: A lot depends on what your goals with the site here is.  

'BlaiseCorvin' pid='524219' dateline='1455031831' Wrote: He said you should never be afraid to hurt your characters.  He said one of the biggest differences between a real writer and a fanfic writer is that a fanfic writer loves their characters too much to hurt them.

Take what Corvin wrote above, and think about it for a moment.  Fanfic writers don't hurt their characters, is basically what it's saying.  RoyalRoadL is basically a fanfic website.  A lot of readers here don't want their characters to be hurt at all.



People here want escapism, not drama, tragedy, or emotions to deal with.  The only emotions that seem to get views is, "Haha! I pawned you, sucker!  Feel my uber wrath of revenge!!"...

Hmm.I am not nearly as good or popular a writer as you, so I don't really know if I should be commenting about this. In my story, the main girl gets killed in Chapter 7-8. However, I haven't seen any loss in followers except an odd one or two people who didn't notice the 'tragedy' tag by their own admission.  But yeah, I do have to explain why  my character is weak often  to remind the readers that he is not OP, can't do everything by himself. Sometimes people just don't get that MC might not be OP, specially at just 10 chapters in.

I feel that people do  take a broken, hurting MC quite alright...if that is presented in a believable manner.  But then again, I have loads of time to be proven wrong. Even I am scared to present a particularly gray chapter.

To me, emotionality is just another aspect of character depth and realism.

If your characters have good emotional depth, your readers should feel what they're feeling even at boring moments. Let's say your MC is waiting for a bus. Is he bored? Is he fascinated by his own thoughts? Is he thinking about asking a girl out on a date and feeling extremely nervous?

Emotions should be blended in seamlessly with your character's thoughts and worked in with the rest of your narration so that your readers are constantly engaged in all dimensions. You shouldn't need a tragic backstory or an inhuman level of determination to become number 1 in some game to make your readers feel the characters' emotions; in fact, these are crutches that simply get in the way of realism.

Write what you know. I assume you've been sad and happy in your lifetime. You've succeeded, and failed, and laughed, and cried. You've been calm and relaxed, angry and tense, and all the shades of feeling in between. Your characters should feel the same in each small moment of their lives.

I'm going to answer this one based on what I've dealt with personally.

My Continue Online story is considered a 'LitRPG' on Amazon and generally fits the bill, but the main characters emotional kick in the balls goes too far in the wrong direction. It's not a matter of dark, but depressive. To summarize - his fiance died with their unborn child in a train wreck, and he tried to kill himself twice in the year following. From my point of view, these actions are a very human response to a terrible situation - however that 'tone' of emotional depth tends to over power everything else.

Pretty much weekly I'll get a few people that add the fiction, the more that drop it. I can only assume (based on review text here, on Amazon, and various Reddit locations) - that the excessive depressive emotion is too much. That and my LitRPG isn't about "Lets go grind monsters today!" - since it delves into future AIs, technology impacts, and other things...

Unice is pretty much right on though. Blending emotions, with the characters thoughts, worked with the rest of the narration. So, emotional depth has it's perks, but don't ride one too much, and maybe by doing that you'll avoid the hole I dug in my first book. It's take another two of careful course correction through the plots natural curve to get my character back into a stable spot.

That being said, my ending will be all the much more awesome for those moments (At least in my head...1.5 books left...closing in...). - for all five of the people still reading by that point.

Be careful for what you wish for. lol.

From day 1, when I wrote my second story I already decided to give my character some depth and flaws, hopefully, to make him relatable. I still plan to make him an OP character but his flaw is that he still in love with his ex who cheated on him. Just to give him some emotional depth, you see.

Now, If I only have a penny for every time my character is called a pussy...

'batotit' pid='538800' dateline='1455940059' Wrote: Be careful for what you wish for. lol.

From day 1, when I wrote my second story I already decided to give my character some depth and flaws, hopefully, to make him relatable. I still plan to make him an OP character but his flaw is that he still in love with his ex who cheated on him. Just to give him some emotional depth, you see.

Now, If I only have a penny for every time my character is called a wussy...  [edited so a mod doesn't need to]

Want to earn some pennies?  Write a female character who wants to seduce your male hero, and have him try to be one of those chaste fellows who wants to save himself for marriage....

You'll have more pennies than followers, as some of them will feel the need to post in every chapter about how much of wussy he is.  How it's not believable.  Not relatable.  That such people don't exist....  

They can believe that the female read a book that taught her magic and turned her into a succubus.  The can believe that the main hero can die and come back to life over and over.  They just can't believe that a guy would want to wait until marriage to have sex...

Sometimes, I wonder if it's just ME being older and having lived a generation prior to a lot of the readers, and thus I fail to comprehend the reality of how much the world has changed since I was last unmarried over twenty years ago; or if it's just the readers not wanting to accept that their wish fulfillment dreams don't always come true with a story.

Whichever the reason, it'll still get you a ton of pennies!!  (That is, if you get a penny for each time the character is called a wussy...)

In my experience, writing a novel with emotional depth comes from experience, namely your own experiences in life, or experiences you've seen people go through first hand. Much of my story Overseer is based on my experiences in life which come in the form of joy, sorrow, confusion, acceptance, a whole slew of things. When dealing with a certain topic, I try to go back and remember how I felt and the things I was thinking when I went through something similar. Sometimes, the conclusion comes as it happened to me, but sometimes there are factors in the story that change it for your characters. It doesn't have to be a carbon copy of your life, but what better place to get material from than the thing you know best: your own life.

Granted it helps that my story has an incoporeal main character, thus forcing me focus more on those emotions, but I always try to put a little of me, my friends, my family, even people I never got along with into my stories because it helps it feel more authentic, more real. When readers can empathize with characters, it creates a bond, and they begin to feel what the character feels. It lies in your power as a weaver of tales to create that empathetic character. Even if only a few traits or experiences resonate with the reader, that's enough to draw them in and make them care about your characters.

The reason everyone has trouble with making an emotional story is because everyone skims over those aspects of the story. To make something emotional, you have to slow things down to a crawl and detail every part of the story, because even something like a facial twitch can have an emotional effect on the reader.

This is how most people do it.

Quote:I disagreed curtly with my sister and she ran back to her room crying. I was quite proud of myself, but Esward thought differently.

See, could care less about this skimmed over emotional rollercoaster of a scene.

Now, lets detail it.

Quote:I tried to be nice, but she pushed me too far. "Fesa! I told you to stop, so stop." In a matter of seconds I could see the smile fall from her face. "I have so many things I need to worry about, and there are so many things that could have gone wrong back there."

I could see the grin pop back onto her face. "You worry too much, sis. Nothing would've happened."

She still didn't understand, I can't believe this. Doesn't she understand just how much danger we're in right now? "Enough!" I could feel veins bulging through my skin. "There are lives on the line here. Does someone have to die before you understand?"

Her expression turned cold. "Nothing was going to happen, you're making too big a deal out of—"

"Fesa! Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth? I am responsible for the safety of hundreds of people. The lives of our entire tribe depends on this. If you keep this up, I will gag and bind you, and leave you on one of the damned wagons." The words just flew out of my mouth I was so angry.

I could go on for awhile there, but you should get the point. This form of writing is very slow as it details every conversation. Two sentences can easily become two pages when you do it. Going fast can be good for skipping over boring parts, but there's no emotion in it. Going slowly can be boring, but it's very emotional and sets the mood.

You first wrote: 

'BlaiseCorvin' pid='524219' dateline='1455031831' Wrote:
Some of the best advice I ever got was in person from a New York Times bestselling fantasy author.

He said you should never be afraid to hurt your characters.  He said one of the biggest differences between a real writer and a fanfic writer is that a fanfic writer loves their characters too much to hurt them.  

That advice has stuck with me.

Then your reply to my comment:

'BlaiseCorvin' pid='539332' dateline='1455978920' Wrote:

'batotit' pid='538800' dateline='1455940059' Wrote: Be careful for what you wish for. lol.

From day 1, when I wrote my second story I already decided to give my character some depth and flaws, hopefully, to make him relatable. I still plan to make him an OP character but his flaw is that he still in love with his ex who cheated on him. Just to give him some emotional depth, you see.

Now, If I only have a penny for every time my character is called a pussy...

Well... if you want a relatable character, nobody wants to relate to someone who /chooses/ to keep themselves in pain, especially when it's not logical in any conceivable way.

People who still love an x who cheated on them (and broke up) hate themselves.  Your readers who identify with this character will be reminded of when/how they hate/hated themselves, and everyone else will see that character as weak.

It doesn't matter how "op" a character is if they're a pathetic person.  Heroes overcome problems, they don't make problems for themselves.

So ... your saying is that don't be afraid to hurt your character provided that the readers agree with you? Wow. Isn't that just another problem a hero should overcome?

I guess I get a penny from you too.

'batotit' pid='540701' dateline='1456072801' Wrote: So ... your saying is that don't be afraid to hurt your character provided that the readers agree with you? Wow. Isn't that just another problem a hero should overcome?

I guess I get a penny from you too.

There's a difference between hurting your characters and allowing them to wallow in their pain. Readers like resilient characters who always strive to improve themselves and their situations, no matter what life throws at them. The fanfic author who's afraid of hurting his/her characters never puts the character in the challenging situation in the first place.

'unice5656' pid='541327' dateline='1456111306' Wrote: There's a difference between hurting your characters and allowing them to wallow in their pain. Readers like resilient characters who always strive to improve themselves and their situations, no matter what life throws at them. The fanfic author who's afraid of hurting his/her characters never puts the character in the challenging situation in the first place.

Wallow in their Pain?! A guy who gets cheated on and dump is not a good character because he is still in love with the one who wronged him? because that doesn't happen in real life or fiction. Wolverine? jean grey? Hawkeye? who said he is not striving to improve himself just because he cannot control who he loves? maybe your solution is the standard fanboy massacre them all because they annoy him or create another  typical harem? 

You just prove that RRL is not yet ready for an emotional and deep characters because of your stereotype mindsets.

Obviously writing well and giving a character an emotional arc (someone dies, someone leaves, etc) will help create an emotional response in a reader.

But on a purely nuts and bolts level there are techniques you can use to heighten emotional responses. For example, using dilemmas. The MC is faced with a choice where neither option is good. Either way someone gets screwed, but he has to choose one, and deal with the consequences.

Injustice is another useful touchstone. Unfair treatment of a character resonates hard with people. The MC does the hard part, but someone else gets the credit. He gets blamed for something that isn't his fault. People treat him badly but he helps them anyway. 

Done poorly these things can feel contrived or manipulative (although that's never stopped writers abusing the hell out of them) but they still have an impact. Soap operas are clearly poorly written and acted but people still can't help responding emotionally when the woman who sacrificed everything for her man finds out he's cheating on her. 

How the MC reacts to the fallout also makes a big difference. If they whine and rage people will get it, but they won't get the feels the way they would if he says nothing and takes the blame in order to protect the kid really at fault (or whatever less cheesy plot you come up with).

Yes, I have reread what you said, before, OP. And it’s still the same.

This thread originally started with Mr. Ephemerality lamenting that there are not enough Characters here in RRL with much emotional depth and he believes that the site will benefit with more character complexity, and deep personal issues, even controversial ones. 

I find it perplexing that when people do try to do that, you dismiss their work, without actually even checking it out first, simply because you do not agree with the premise of the character when you claim to support such character development. 

'BlaiseCorvin' pid='542555' dateline='1456175707' Wrote: I'm really not trying to talk down to you.  You seemed to legitimately wonder why people would not like your character or your story.  I'm telling you why.

Actually, you are. 

The problem here is that you assume too much. I put a few info about my work in my first comment here and why people should be careful what they wish for. And you already assume that “people who are still in love with an x they were hurt by hate themselves for it”, that he is a spineless doormat, and that he is not a resilient character who strive to improve himself.

You even go so far as to compare my character to a freaking pedophile when you haven’t read my work.

Actually, my readers call my character a pussy because he still hasn't murdered or tortured or raped his ex and her lover. Not because he is still in love with her. 

'BlaiseCorvin' pid='542555' dateline='1456175707' Wrote: It's the same reason so many people HATE (and I mean hate, that strong of an emotion) Shinji Ikari from Neon Genesis Evangelion.  On the flip side, Deadpool is a murderer who indulged/indulges in hookers and drugs, but people love his character.

What you seem to forget is that Neon genesis Evangelion is a phenomenal hit in and outside of japan that until now has a very loyal fan base. Yes, the show generated a lot of debate, and yes hate, but I say that the writer had done his job by making people THINK. 

Deadpool, well I haven’t seen the movie yet so I cannot directly comment, but if marvel follows the same formula, then they are striving to create a character that is, guess what, a complex and flawed one. 

I’ll take the flak from the readers who doesn’t know better, but not from a fellow author who knows the hardship of creating a relatable character. This site is made supposedly to empower authors and their ideas, and not to be dismissed by other authors simply because they do not conform to their narrow-minded ideas of what a character should be.

'batotit' pid='541476' dateline='1456117415' Wrote: maybe your solution is the standard fanboy massacre them all because they annoy him or create another  typical harem? 

You just prove that RRL is not yet ready for an emotional and deep characters because of your stereotype mindsets.

Honestly, my solution would be for the guy to get over the girl, and then find a different girl who won't cheat on him. Honestly, you're getting overemotional defending your character.

I think BlaiseCorvin did a good job explaining why people dislike certain weaknesses in otherwise relatable characters. They don't want to relate to certain flaws. Readers want relatable characters who also overcome bad situations because it allows them to think, "Maybe I can do that, too."

The root of this is why people read and write OP characters in the first place. They want to escape to a world where the good guy who tries hard always wins. Even when you start building in more character depth and struggle for growth, you have to keep that desire in mind.

You can rage and rant about readers, but they want what they want. Either write what you want without caring about the comments, or keep those human desires in the back of your mind when writing. Successful writers find a happy medium. Honestly, happy endings feel good for the writer, too, so it's not much of a compromise.

'unice5656' pid='543035' dateline='1456201976' Wrote: I think BlaiseCorvin did a good job explaining why people dislike certain weaknesses in otherwise relatable characters. They don't want to relate to certain flaws. Readers want relatable characters who also overcome bad situations because it allows them to think, "Maybe I can do that, too."

The root of this is why people read and write OP characters in the first place. They want to escape to a world where the good guy who tries hard always wins. Even when you start building in more character depth and struggle for growth, you have to keep that desire in mind.

You can rage and rant about readers, but they want what they want. Either write what you want without caring about the comments, or keep those human desires in the back of your mind when writing. Successful writers find a happy medium. Honestly, happy endings feel good for the writer, too, so it's not much of a compromise.

*heavy sighed* 

First of all, I am not defending my character to anyone because I already see that it works. I presented a dilemma in my story, people got angry. I now have fixed that dilemma and now people are happy. end of story. I'm now in the next arc looking for a new dilemma.

I am reacting to your callous disregard for other people's opinion. I presented a simple idea in my first comment, and you simply dismiss it because it's not something you agree or interested in. 

I am simply explaining to you or to mr Blaise that you do not have a monopoly of knowing how people think or what they like to read both out there in the world or even just here in RRL. 

Take that as you will.

---

'BlaiseCorvin' pid='543134' dateline='1456209218' Wrote: My mother always told me, "Don't ask questions you don't want answered."  It was wise advice.

Does your mom advise you as well not to give your opinion of others when they are not asking for it? Because I think that's a better advice.