Making a better antagonist

#1
I want to learn is how to make a better antagonist. Help me out guys. Please.

Is it okay for the bad guy to do bad things with little to no reason? I see a lot of antagonists to be unrelatable psychopaths hell-bent on screwing up the world for the sake of being bad. 

If the antagonist is a cunning and deceptive evil deity, how do you think he would act? If you were the evil deity antagonist, what would you do to antagonize the protagonist?

If you have any suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them out.

And if you know any fictions with a 'good' antagonist, I'd like to read them.
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RE: Making a better antagonist

#2
I think I've read somewhere that what professionals do is they'll write the rough draft of their stories first then they'll develop their characters after. Kinda like you are tailor making the characters for the fiction.

It's a very hard topic so I don't know how much more help I can be. I think that's why no one else has answered.

The best advice is to look up professional guides on the matter. Just google "fiction writing antagonist" or something similar and I'm sure you'll find something detailed on the matter.

RE: Making a better antagonist

#3
It really depends on what type of antagonist you want to make and what purpose he'll serve for the plot. There are pure evil antagonists who exist solely to anger the reader and to make the reader root for the MC, whereas there are also antagonists who want to invoke a certain degree of sympathy/adoration from the reader.

In case of an evil deity, I believe the usual direction is to make the character "cool" in some way. An actual reason for "being evil" may not be necessary, as gods don't have to be 100% understandable for humans. It can help if done right, though.

For me, a good trickster deity is one who convinces good people to do bad things. He'll rarely use his own hands to commit anything straightforwardly evil. Instead, he'll indirectly push good people to commit the crimes for him. Bonus points if he can turn main characters against each other.

If you also want the trickster to be somewhat "likable", then you can give him a weakness and make the heroes exploit it after overcoming the trickery. This will give the trickster some punishment for his deeds... but, let the trickster use a final sophisticated ace to survive and keep going. Bonus points if he learned from his previous mistakes and improves his trickery for the future.
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RE: Making a better antagonist

#4
'jmlikestorock009' pid='816469' dateline='1476632334' Wrote: Is it okay for the bad guy to do bad things with little to no reason? I see a lot of antagonists to be unrelatable psychopaths hell-bent on screwing up the world for the sake of being bad. 

If the antagonist is a cunning and deceptive evil deity, how do you think he would act? If you were the evil deity antagonist, what would you do to antagonize the protagonist?

In my experience with antagonists, I usually think up some backstory for them, regardless whether I actually show it in the story or not. (Be it person, place or thing, it's gotta have some sort of history.)
This helps me understand what the antagonist is all about, and how it may react.
It's just really fun writing up the backstory for the enemy too, haha.

RE: Making a better antagonist

#5
@DarkClaymore nailed it with his post.

I read an inspiring phrase somewhere saying that : to make an antagonist that readers can't forget, make the whole story the story of that antagonist, but told in the protagonist's perspective.
It belongs to a different school of thought, but if an author can blend the usual protagonist-centered story with this style, the result won't be disappointing. I believe this is how the most awesome antagonists are created. Except the Joker, maybe.

RE: Making a better antagonist

#6
I think taking a look at history is good in this case. One of the more disturbing parts of the villains in even recent history is that they are often normal people. They laugh, they cry, they take photos with children and kiss babies, they tell their kids their late to bed or that they can have 5 more minutes and then go on to commit some of the greatest atrocities of all time.

RE: Making a better antagonist

#7
Best advice I've ever read was that antagonists are the protagonists of their own story. From their own POV what they're doing is the right and just thing and you need to have that in mind even if you don't show the readers what that motivation is from the antagonist's POV.

Outside of that, remember that even the shallowest person isn't a flat cut out. Depth is needed to sell the antagonist as someone who can properly the protagonist and not just be a speed bump along the way. The more depth you give them the more readers will find them interesting and the more they may even sympathize with the antagonist, creating a feeling of being torn between the protagonist and the antagonist's stances and beliefs.
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RE: Making a better antagonist

#8
Quote:
Is it okay for the bad guy to do bad things with little to no reason? I see a lot of antagonists to be unrelatable psychopaths hell-bent on screwing up the world for the sake of being bad.

Sure, if you can make them more fun and less edgy. I just roll my eyes if I see the latter.

Quote:
If the antagonist is a cunning and deceptive evil deity, how do you think he would act? If you were the evil deity antagonist, what would you do to antagonize the protagonist?

Keep on taunting him in his dreams.

RE: Making a better antagonist

#9
Just need to mention that an antagonist doesn't always need a justifiable reason. A robber can steal simply because they want money. They know it's wrong, they just don't care. People try and use cognitive dissonance to explain that the robber will still justify what he has done, regardless of intent, but I disagree with cognitive dissonance in general so I'm going to say no. You also don't have to be a sociopath or psychopath to do a bad thing for an unjust reason. Sometimes people just do bad things because they are bad people.

My idea of a good antagonist is someone who has their own agenda. Too often I see an antagonist's life revolve around the protagonists. Why? The antagonist should have his own goals, his own desires. They should be his central focus, not the protagonist.

RE: Making a better antagonist

#11
'Kawaranu' pid='817912' dateline='1478582132' Wrote: The antagonist has a mental disease *BAM* xd I'm bad ; w ;

*ahem*

"Rain Man" Wrote: [after Ray spills a box of toothpicks on the floor]
Raymond: 82, 82, 82.
Charlie: 82 what?
Raymond: Toothpicks.
Charlie: There's a lot more than 82 toothpicks, Ray.
Raymond: 246 total.
Charlie: How many?
Sally Dibbs: 250.
Charlie: Pretty close.
Sally Dibbs: There's four left in the box.
Sealed by Heaven: (ongoing) the story of an alcoholic goddess trapped in the body of a mortal girl.

RE: Making a better antagonist

#12
'LizTheRobot' pid='817994' dateline='1478816290' Wrote:
'Kawaranu' pid='817912' dateline='1478582132' Wrote: The antagonist has a mental disease *BAM* xd I'm bad ; w ;

*ahem*

"Rain Man" Wrote: [after Ray spills a box of toothpicks on the floor]
Raymond: 82, 82, 82.
Charlie: 82 what?
Raymond: Toothpicks.
Charlie: There's a lot more than 82 toothpicks, Ray.
Raymond: 246 total.
Charlie: How many?
Sally Dibbs: 250.
Charlie: Pretty close.
Sally Dibbs: There's four left in the box.

XdXd
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RE: Making a better antagonist

#13
antagonists come in all shapes and sizes. I think the best antagonists are the ones who pull at the emotions of the audience. Either by making the audience repulsed and frightened, or by gaining audience sympathy; overpowered monsters are ok, but you need to REALLY build that wall high and make the monster some sort of overwhelming source of doom. To only be actually used in the same scene as the MC once; perhaps twice.

I like show antagonists before they become relevant to the plot. Give some sort of intro to them. It's much better to give the reader something to work with else they'll get bored quickly. Even if the antagonist only will be one for one encounter with the MC, it's best if they're shown at least once before they start interacting with the MC so the audience isn't confused why this butt head suddenly is attacking the mc, and lose all interest in the resulting fight.
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