RE: How people feel about torture/rape in a story?

#3
People like identifying with characters in the story, especially with MC and the main side characters and companions. Having one of them be raped or rape someome puts people off, while torture is still something most people are willing to accept.
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RE: How people feel about torture/rape in a story?

#4
Well that depends. What type of story are you aiming for Grimdark, Fluffy, something inbetween, or something entirely off the charts?

It depends on the your reason for adding said torture/rape. Is it to make someone seem more evil? Is it to create an oposing force for the MC? Or is it just plot convenience for something else?

Regardless I wouldn't suggest using either unless there's no other way to achieve the affect that you want wether it be on the plot or to your reraders.
What the point of adding torture if there's better ways to get information like bribery. mind reading, and etc.. What's the point of adding rape, lest to make the character seem like a horny fool?
I mean if torture is the only way in that situation, then go for it. Not everyone's bribe-able, and maybe mind reading doesn't exist in your book. Also if your trying to make a character seem like a scumbag, then yea. Add rape, otherwise don't.

But most importantly. Who is the victim and who is the commiter. I really don't think it's a good idea to have someone like the main heroine get raped.

Personally I don't really mind reading about either, as long as it isn't graphic, and as long as it doesn't happen to a character that I hold significant emotional attachements to.
The most I would do as a writer is put in mentionings, or hints about it if the character is made to gather pity.

All in all before using torture/rape there are some stuff to think about.
-Think about the effect on the audiance. In the end it's the reader's opinion that matters.
-Think about the effects it would have on the victim. You may want to write the results and emotional/phychological breakdown of the character, as to make it seem real. Unless the victim is a filler character(a level below side character)
-Think of a logical reason/another way for the character to do such an act. Like I said if bribery is available, then realistically speaking most would just go for bribery. It is a fact approved by the U.S that unless you know how to interrogate people, most tortue end up being wasted effort. Of coarse reasons like he/she's a sadist and just wants to watch people suffer is a perfectly valid reason.

RE: How people feel about torture/rape in a story?

#5
So both of those things are not good. Both of them *can* be put into a story, but in general I wouldn't recommend it.

Torture actually gets a bit of a pass weirdly. Most readers are desensitized to it to some degree, a lot of people won't even recognize it happening if it's not really explicit (like a dark concrete room and lots of whips, chains, and thumbscrews type obvious), because it's in like *everything*. Books, movies, anime, manga, webnovels, young adult fiction - you'll find torture in all of them if you poke your nose in deep enough. People are weirdly ok with the hero strapping the villain to a table and getting the code to the ticking time bomb out of them by whatever. means. necessary.

And they're also generally ok with the hero being strapped to that same table - so he can be transformed into a brooding antihero in a whirlwind of "character development". So you know - knock yourself out, throw it in your story if you want. I don't really recommend it torture is wrong after all, but readers will probably give you a pass - so long as you aren't too gratuitous about it.

Rape though. Rape is a whooole different can of worms. Pretty much no one has been tortured, the people who read your web-fiction and who have also been chained to a chair and beaten with a hose is a percentage infinitely close to zero - not impossible but so hugely improbable it doesn't really bear consideration. On the other hand people who have been raped or sexually assaulted? Had a rape or assault personally impact their lives - a victimized mother or sister or daughter? That number is massive by comparison.

Really you shouldn't even be mentioning rape and torture in the same breath, one is strange and fanciful - something out of stories - and one is a horrible reality millions of people live with every day. So. Knowing all that, you've decided to put rape in your story anyway. Ok.

I wouldn't, if I were you. It's such a huge, complex, and extremely delicate topic. A woman who is raped shouldn't subsequently be defined by that - but it also isn't something that should be just glossed over and ignored. What happens next? Does she live for vengeance? Does she hide away, forever scarred and forever scared? Does she repress her emotions and live her life like nothing happened? Is your story set in Fantasyland, and she doesn't care at all? How are you - the author - going to address those questions? And the million other uncomfortable questions the topic raises? If you're just going to gloss past it - another heroine for the harem - ok. That's not good, but it could be worse.

But are you going to try to have a serious conversation about rape in your web fiction on royal road? Really? You feel qualified for that? I know I don't. Why would you do that to yourself? Why even open yourself to that kind of criticism?

And no matter how you handle it it will be a huge turn off for readers, unless it's a "bad" person getting raped and you establish that very well beforehand - again not good, but could be worse I guess - and even then...

In short, torture - meh. Rape - why even bother with such a hot button topic just to add a bit more "grim" to your grimdark story.
~writing is hard~

RE: How people feel about torture/rape in a story?

#6
I think it depends on the kind of story and in what form you put it in really.

If you write a lighthearted romantic novel, you should probably avoid it altogher,

If you write a dark fantasy novel in which evil does occur, mention of such things are acceptable as background noise generally.

Going full out descriptive scenes with it. Well, does anyone really want to read that? Knowing it exists and happens in your world should probably be enough.

RE: How people feel about torture/rape in a story?

#8
As reader, my only measurestick is: "Does it help to advance the plot or reveal a character further?"

Most authors on RRL use these two issues as an instant plot device to create villians while dehumanizing them to the reader.

E.g.:

"Look, he is kicking puppies! Lets stop him"
"Stop interrupting me from kicking puppies"
"Die!" and our MC goes on full rage to slaughter puppy kickers.
Rinse and Repeat.

One proper usage for rape and torture is to reveal who the MC is:

Does the MC torture the kidnapper to reveal the kidnapped persons location?
Author Andur e.g. does it, to show that his MCs are "realists, not sissys".
Does the MC rape another character in an emotionally charged situation, as in after the conquest of a city?
Was the MC victim of rape/torture in the past to illuminate his current flaws or is he experiencing it at the moment, which leads to radical character changing behavior?

The second proper usage is advancing the plot.

Are the details of torture/rape necessary to keep the action going? Do we need to know the color of the armor when our MC is charging into battle?
If the aim is to write a tragedy, this could be the ending or the begin of a slippery slope. (Fall from grace or Icarus type tragedy)

TL;DR
Does it help the plot?

RE: How people feel about torture/rape in a story?

#9
The difference between torture and rape is the psychological impact rather then the the damage of the act. It is a hard thing to explain, and I'm very ignorant comapred to actual experts, so take this at face value. I'm really just offering my opinion here.

But to me It's like the difference between bowing down to a man who beat you, and bowing down to a man who wishes to take your wife. One is an implication of dignity, the other of one's humanity. Many people will understand and sympathise with the first person, but abhor the second one.

Sex just holds a very important mental significance for people. Especially for people who consider themselves 'virgins' and believe that sex is a sacred thing that should be given at either a specific time or for a specific person. And yes, it is purely a mental significance. Virginity, physically/biologically, is something that doesn't exist. Not sure how it started or why, but it's interesting that we all believe in it.

But I digress. People believe that when you have sex with someone you're offering a part of yourself to them, and in many ways they're right. It's an intimate thing that connects you to another person. But in rape, instead of an offering of yourself, a piece of yourself is taken away. The impact of knowing that something you consider so precious was ripped from you by someone you abhor has a huge psychological impact on someone, and because we all consider such a thing precious we all not only sympathise but get angry about it. After all, it could happen to you. Would you not be against it in that case?

And another important reason is that rape victims are, almost always, alienated after the event by many people. It is common occurrence that after such a horrendous event, many people will consider the rape victim 'defiled' and will subconsciously, or even in a lot of cases consciously, avoid and persecute them for what happened. Ridiculous right, blaming the victim? But it happens quite a lot. And not just them, even the rape victim themselves will quite often blame themselves (or hate themselves - or both) for the event and think that others think less of them because of it. Because of this, it takes a lot longer (and sometimes never depending on the amount of support they receive) for rape victims to integrate themselves back into society and move forward with their life.

Because of this, people have come to associate rape with a 'life ruining event', which is far worse to people then the temporary (even if damaging) effect of torture. Excluding extreme cases of torture which has a lasting impact (not to mention mental conditioning which is a much much darker strand of torture), because you'll find if you describe the truly horrifying types of torture that people will be just as abhorred about it as rape.

RE: How people feel about torture/rape in a story?

#10
Torture is a bad idea because it puts people in a bad mood. Rape is simply because people don't wanna read about that. There's all kinds of alternative ideas you could use, do you really need to use rape? It's especially bothersome when an author thinks rape isn't a big deal and makes their protagonist into a rapist. I personally found Battle Through The Heavens distasteful because in the early chapters they made rape sound casual. Like it's okay for a protagonist to rape his friends.

Basically, if you are on this forum wondering why rape plot lines are a big deal, then you should NOT use them. They are VERY finicky. You either use them properly or you don't use them at all.

With torture you just have to keep in mind what mood you are putting your readers in. If everything is a downer, your readers may not be willing to keep reading.