Need help with feedback

#1
I have asked so many people for help, and once in a while someone will give me a little advice, but it's never enough.  I really want my story to be great and I know despite how many people may view it, it still has a lot of things that could be better.  My family and friends are just too busy and not terribly invested in helping me. They never get back to me.  I sometimes randomly ask them for small bits of help, but I never get the in depth help I really need.  

My weaknesses- Dialogue- it's my worst weakness, I think.  I have a strange personality and have never been good in social situations.  Basically I always say the wrong thing.  I just can't understand how most people talk, so I often have misunderstandings and offend people without meaning too.  So I don't think I can make my dialogue really believable and smooth when I can't hold a normal conversation or understand them in the real world.

second is the battle scenes-  I know if I'm weak in something I shouldn't try to write that.  You should write what you know and all that jazz.  Still the story I started, Zeltis, just was begging to be written.  It was so alive in my head and I wanted so badly to share it with others.  So I want the battle scenes to be interesting and feel realistic and exciting.  Still I only did a little martial arts in a dojo once and never went to a tournament.  Watching a movie helps a little but it's hard to know if I am describing the fight well.

I know I have other weaknesses.  I often feel like my writing lacks depth and richness, but have no idea how to add that.  I tend to write by seeing a picture in my head and trying to write what happened in it but it is really hard to convert a visual picture into words that flow well.  Plus I never really know what happened before or after the picture.  I tend to rush things to try and keep things exciting and probably rush too much making it empty.  I also have trouble seeing below the surface and writing just the write amount of detail.  I also tend to forget important details that impact things.  Like forgetting a character had a sprained ankle and yet got on a horse with no problem, stuff like that.  

I know people are busy but I really want an honest in depth critique and maybe some advice(detailed) on how I can improve my story.
Here is the link or you can just search for Zeltis- http://www.royalroadl.com/fiction/543

RE: Need help with feedback

#2
I received a lackluster crit not long ago after waiting nearly a month for it. It basically said stuff such as "You need to show rather than tell." "Add more details." "The characters need more depth." Yes, yes I know. But HOW! Where? If I knew how and where to do this kind of thing I would have already been doing it. I am losing more and more confidence and it is hard to know if I should continue to try to write when I seem to have so many weaknesses and need so much help. No matter how often I do get corrected I end up making the same mistakes. I just can't see them until they are pointed out every time and even if I do see them I have no idea how to fix them. I just don't know what to do anymore. I really like the characters and ideas I come up with but not only is my writing one dimensional but I also get bored quickly. I end up running out of ideas and motivation to continue. I always am so enthusiastic the first few chapters or so and then I start to lose interest. I still like the story and want to continue but I just can't think of anything to write and can't force myself to. It's getting harder and harder to keep going when I get less and less views every chapter. I feel like I'm hitting a wall and have no idea what to do next.

I shouldn't complain so much but I want so badly to succeed and have no idea how to go about it. If I don't ask here and hope for the best, where else should I go?

RE: Need help with feedback

#3
I have all of the same weaknesses and I've been trying to fix them. Here is some knowledge I've learned from trying to fix it.

Show don't tell: This is prevalent in third person stories, basically it's when the narrator describes something rather than letting them see through actions.

Ex: Tell- "The maid was clumsy."
Show- "The girl was wearing a frilly dress and was serving people in a themed cafe. While serving she'd often bump into people by accident and trip over her own feet."

Basically it means you should describe things and give examples rather than just putting on labels.


In regards to dialogue, I'm a bit of an argumentative and analytical person. So I basically create a conversation with myself then split it up to my characters. Changing it to reflect the personalities of each character. It can also be used to flesh out a short sentence about something exciting or noticeable.

Another thing is that you shouldn't just say who's saying what. You're supposed to do that at first but when it's a one-on-one conversation you can use the personality of the characters to show who's talking. Plus try to mix in descriptions of what the characters are doing while talking.

Ex: short sentence- "There was a loud explosion."

Fleshed out dialogue:
Boom!

"What the f*ck was that?!" Said John Doe while looking around.

"Sounds like an explosion to me," replied Billy Doe as he whittled his stick.

"How can you just sit around when an explosion happened nearby?" Said John as he got up, "We have to go see what happened!" He waved his hands in the air as he shouted.

"And go towards the dangerous explosion?"

John sat down and thought about what Billy said for a few seconds.

"Pass me a stick, Billy."


In regards to getting more character depth, keep a separate document on the personalities of characters (things like events, titles, locations, etc too to avoid plot holes.). This list is your bible when writing the story. Make the characters react in a way that reflects their personalities. Plus make them dynamic.

For example if you're main character is twelve years old and OP they're going to get a bit arrogant. It doesn't matter if they're reincarnated, twelve year olds are hormonal things.

Another example is that you should have subjects that characters dislike or like. When subjects come up that they like they should get angry or stay out of the conversation. Perhaps if their personality is tolerant they will try to participate without doing either but sound a bit forced, unsure, or monotone.

When talking about things they like you should have them try to dominate the conversation unintentionally. Maybe make them get embarrassed afterwards if they're normally shy. Or have the other characters get a bit frustrated by not being able to put in their say.

Ex: Separate notes- John hates pickles, but Billy loves them. John tends to be tolerant of conversions he dislikes but snaps easily. Billy tends to overdo it when talking of things he likes, this embarrasses him as he normally doesn't talk a lot.

"John pass the pickles," said Billy as he reached out.

John let out a grunt and passed the jar of pickles to Billy. "Here."

Billy started to unscrew the cap on the pickle jar while saying "I love these pickles so much. They got just the right amount of crunch to 'em and they're so sweet. I can't help but lick me my fingers..."

Billy stopped talking as he managed to get the cap off.

"I see." said John as he looked down, focusing on his food.

Crunch!

One of the pickles made an obnoxious noise as Billy took a bite out of it. "So good, I can't get enough. It's this brand here, I won't get any other kind."

"Okay."

Billy suddenly pushed the jar towards John. "Here you have some too."

John lifted up his hands and said, "No thank you I still have some of my dinner left."

"I insist," he pushed the jar further.

John's brow crinkled up and his breathing started to get rough. "I said no."

"Yeah but just this one time, c'mon."

John slammed his hands onto the table causing the jar of pickles to fall over. "I said I don't want any f*cking pickles!"

Billy backed off a bit and looked down meekly. But he took a few glances towards the jar of pickles that had fallen over. Wanting to pick it back up but he was afraid of angering John again.


In regards to battle scenes, just be detailed. One sentence never works when describing a fight scene. Use all five senses to supplement your work. Plus if there's a war give periodic mentions of surrounding fights or the overall situation.

Stuff like the character's mouth drying up from fear, drooling from battlelust or drugs, a heavy feeling from swinging a sword while tired, the mental toll of casting a spell or watching comrades fall, papain from small cuts here and there, if it's a shonen style fight throw in some dialogue and "special moves", if it's mature kill off people who shout out what they're doing or say fancy names, and always remember it's easier to kill than it is to capture.

RE: Need help with feedback

#4
could you read a bit of my story and give me a few pointers. I don't expect you to edit the whole book even a few examples of how you might write a sentence or paragraph would help. I think I have a battle scene in the second chapter. Though I really want the first chapter to grab people more. So the first three chapters are the most important to me. So even if you could read it and tell me what you think. I just don't know how good it is at the moment and how much it needs. The link is in my signature. Without specific examples taken from my story it is hard for me to know how and where to do what you suggested. I know it is a lot to ask so if you want me to try and help somehow in return I don't mind. I just really want to fill in those blanks in the story to make it into a page turner.

RE: Need help with feedback

#5
I've skimmed over the first few paragraphs. Here's what I suggest.
----------
First paragraph:

"dark blond hair behind him" dark yet blond? Isn't that...brown?
----------
Second paragraph

"He went around a curve and saw a line of cars ahead, with a van at the back that was going slow."

This is unclear. Is the van behind him? Behind the line? Why does he want to clear the van?
Wouldn't he be stuck in traffic either way? I would write


"As he sped around the curve, he spotted a traffic jam ahead. Behind him, a black SUV was slowly closing the distance"

Obviously, my rewriting might not convey your story accurately, but it's just an example.
----------
"He cussed, hoping his tires weren’t damaged"

Show, don't say. I would write:


"Fuck," Alexander snapped, glancing at his tire, "Slow motherfuckers. My tire better not be scrapped..."
----------

"Yet, today there wasn’t enough room on the right to pass, since there was a ditch. Cars were also coming steadily from the other direction.  He gritted his teeth in frustration. He had never been good at being patient - this is a prime example of "show instead of say". This is completely unnecessary. "

Is there just a ditch today? Isn't a ditch there everyday? I would write.

"The roads here were too tight, leaving little to no space to maneuver around the gridlock. Borrowing the incoming lane was also out of the question; it was just as clogged as this one.

"Tsk..." he grit his teeth in frustration. "
----------

I hope you get the idea.

If you really want to improve your writing, read more. Don't read the fanfics on here, we're amateurs for a reason. Don't read light novel fan translations either.

Read full fledged, published novels from established authors. It'll expand your vocabulary and improve your sentence structure. And read the genre you want to write. If you want to write fantasy, read fantasy. I have a single chapter of my fiction released, written in the style of western fantasy. Give it a read, maybe it'll give you some ideas.

RE: Need help with feedback

#6
Wow that does help a bit. Reading, though it does improve my vocabulary I just can't pick out the things in their work that make it great. I also have no idea how to apply the things I do notice in my own work. I know the weaknesses are there but I can never see them until someone points them out. Then I can't fix them until I see a clear example. It is seriously frustrating. That is why I wonder if I am just not cut out for writing. I just don't pick things up well without someone basically teaching me everything. Sometimes I feel pretty hopeless. I want to see these pictures in my head brought to life and these characters stories come alive but my writing is just not good enough alone.

RE: Need help with feedback

#7
'Gaiadarkstar' pid='184547' dateline='1430412162' Wrote: Wow that does help a bit.  Reading, though it does improve my vocabulary I just can't pick out the things in their work that make it great.  I also have no idea how to apply the things I do notice in my own work.  I know the weaknesses are there but I can never see them until someone points them out.  Then I can't fix them until I see a clear example.  It is seriously frustrating.  That is why I wonder if I am just not cut out for writing.  I just don't pick things up well without someone basically teaching me everything.  Sometimes I feel pretty hopeless.  I want to see these pictures in my head brought to life and these characters stories come alive but my writing is just not good enough alone.

Read. Don't try to analyse or find what makes great authors great. Just read. best advice I can give.

RE: Need help with feedback

#8
I would disagree on that somewhat. Reading is good but there's a limit to what it can provide. I had been absorbed by books since my childhood. They were as important to me as air. Did it help my writing? For sure. However, it wasn't until I started analyzing the books that I noticed some things. For example dialogues. I was writing them like.

"I want to go home," the boy complained.

"Be quiet," his mother ordered.

That's decent enough. There's nothing too bad about it but when I started paying attention, I noticed that more often than not there was more to dialogue than that. There's actions to the words, there's interaction and other stuff.

"I want to go home," the boy whimpered, teary eyed. He tugged at his mother's skirt in an attempt to get her attention.

It had the effect of gaining it, but that was pretty much all it achieved. "Shut it," she hissed through clenched teeth, looking around to make sure no one noticed. "How many times have I told you to grow up? You're not a freaking child anymore." She pushed him away, stumbling the boy and marched off.

I wouldn't say this is perfect either. I have a lot yet to learn, but I think this helps to illustrate my point that if you want to be really good, only reading isn't good enough. You HAVE to pay attention or maybe reread your favorite scenes to see what worked there. Why did you like it so much? Why was it so engaging?
Dream Chaser - After the world got destroyed, four people find themselves in a society under the feet of an Energy user. It is their wish to survive and help those around them, but how do you fight an opponent that can shape the whole world as they see fit? 

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You might want to think twice before you try to use a man's conscience against him. It might just turn out he doesn't have one.


RE: Need help with feedback

#9
DarkSun the second example is better than the first because it gives more details and insight into the characters. The first example can be looked at by the boy being a wimp while the mother being relatively normal or the boy being normal while the mother is being cruel. While the second example clearly shows that the mother is being cruel to the boy. Having more details and using actions alongside dialogues can go a long way in helping flesh out characters.

RE: Need help with feedback

#10
Fumu, this has been quiet educational.

At first, read rather than analyse. This serves to take in the big picture of the authors style and his progression rather than focusing on specific points.

After that's done, analyse over reading. Stop when you see specific techniques, such as how he incorporates the character, his use of vocabulary in response to the environment and/or events

The dad told his son "Get dressed, have you cleaned your teeth? Hurry up or we'll miss your cousins at the airport!" he appeared to be in quite the hurry  

"I don't wanna" said the child in blithe indifference

"Honey is he ready yet?" a loud yet gentle voice was calling up the stairs

"He'll be down in a minute!"  he yelled back, his face distorting as he stared at the rebellious little man in front of him with a crookedly forced smile

The above scene is supposed to give off a feeling of being fast paced and hectic


It is important to use a wide array of vocabulary and try to avoid constant repetition of words. Though blithe or similar uncommon words will just confuse your reader. Try not to break out the thesaurus.

Refer to sound, taste, smell, touch and sight where possible and refer to relevant/nearby structures to help immerse your reader as well. I.e. 'stairs'

Well that's my two cents, whether my logic sounds solid or not I'll leave that to more experienced people to decide

RE: Need help with feedback

#12
ok I'm having trouble figuring out a scene, I have the general idea of what I want to happen but have no idea about the details.  The general scene is The character Zeltis(a demon who hunts other demons to gain power and is currently in the body of a human host named Alex) is out at night to hunt his prey.  (he can sense all those near his level and weaker).  He finds a target and heads to them.  On the way he runs into his host body's classmate ( I still can't come up with a good reason a young girl is out late in the evening alone).  The battle ensues and she is accidently hit by stray magic and knocked unconscious ( don't know how she is hit and with what that wouldn't just kill her outright).  She wakes to find she has awakened to latent magical talent and is now a witch. (again I don't know what kind of powers she should have I don't want her too powerful but it should be something interesting in the style of "charmed")

Ok the stuff in parenthesis are my thoughts and problems with the scene that I can think of at the moment and I can't get anywhere with my story until I figure them out.  So if anyone has any ideas PLEASE give me a hand.

RE: Need help with feedback

#13
Think out of the box, then within it. And then how many ways you can use the same opportunity,

Why would a young girl be out?  First, out of the box: She has magical talent and you need a low power talent, right? So, why not use this opportunity? Maybe she can see small glimpse of future or supernatural perception of impending danger. The latest fights in the city made her latent talent aware that something was wrong, so she wandered out because she just couldn't stay at home due to unease. 
 
Now many ways you can use this: Indicate her power, If you want this girl to be the Demon's guys romantic interest in future, you can do something else. Make her senses strangely attracted to the danger she was sensing. Like she needed to know what it was. This might set up the stage for romantic interest  later. 

Also, this might just indicate her restless/Curious personality since she couldn't stay still sensing the danger/strangeness in air.

Now, within Box: A young girl out late at night may have several reasons, she wanted to go to a  near convenience store, got late while group-studying at a friend's place, returning from a date, taking a stroll, heck, she might have run out cuz her tampons ran out (happened far too many times to people I know). 

Magic

Outside box: Well, she doesn't need direct magic to get knocked out. An Ice floor caused by freezing would make her slip and hit her head, Stray debris due to storm magic hit her head, people running in fear knocjed her down and trampled her, broken debris from structure hit her, Smoke from fire.

Inside Box: Stun spell?
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RE: Need help with feedback

#14
It could be something simple, like the girl likes to go out for walks at night. Maybe she's actually still in her backyard, or in the local park, and the demon happens to run near her.

As for the magic, the most obvious one that would be likely to waken something latent would be a telepathic strike. If that sort of thing doesn't exist in your story universe, the next most likely would be if she were hit by something like lightning or fire, which activated latent magic of the same type, and it's the activated magic that saves her from dying.

RE: Need help with feedback

#15
those are such great ideas.  Thanks so much.  If anyone else wants to chime in don't hesitate.  So so far I did have her be sensitive to the supernatural, she can see ghosts mainly but as for when her powers awaken more what could more powers be that link to that?  I don't want it too cliche but I do want her to be able to do a couple cool things and have potential to get stronger.

RE: Need help with feedback

#16
Midnight jog? Gone down to the shop to get a midnight snack maybe? It would also make sense if they were on their way back from a party. Though that depends on how old they are. Maybe they survive simply because they aren't a demon and the spell was made to harm a demon? Some kind of disbelief shielding? Rubber shoes? Could be anything really, haha. 

Powers huh? Well... this is kind of cliche but how about curses? It's very witch like with a lot of potential to get stronger. Like the curses just start out being simply things. Like tying a bundle of raven bones and putting them under someones bed to make their hair fall out. Then things like barriers to keep out certain creature and things. Maybe eventually all the way up to being able to make someone die by chocking on crocodile teeth and being able to destroy most supernatural things with the right preparations and rituals. 

For something less dark... maybe something like magical powers that involve the manipulation of spirits to achieve various effects. Whether or not they're actually useful is up to their own ingenuity. Or something.

Hopefull this was helpful in some way.
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