'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#1
Hello
I've been curious about it for some time. What do you guys think about harems?

I honestly find it somewhat repulsive, annoying, highly unlikely and degrading even.
When all the friends the MC has are women, and they always end up in sexual situations...
It feels off, can't read it.

Reverse harem too^

I know some of you are very fond of fan service, and I'd like to hear your opinions.

What makes you guys enjoy it?

RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#3
If novels were Christianity denomination, ones with harems would be local equivalent of satan worshipping.

It's boring, unreal, in most cases painful to read (I read such novels DESPITE harems, not for them, if they have anything interesting in the plot), especially when girls/boys/whatever else is written as one dimensional sex toys for the MC. For some reason that's the standard. When there is some depth and, for example, a complicated love situation instead of MC getting to bang all the interesting people of opposite (or not) sex on the planet, it is bearable.
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RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#5
I only mind things like that if the characters in the harem are flat. If you can give me a compelling reason for why everyone is okay with it, I'll swallow that pill. The main issue with harem stories is that by definition there's going to be a lot of girls/guys that you will have to split your time across.

In fiction, a character should only exist if they add something to the plot. Otherwise, they're just an extraneous distraction and hence, shouldn't be in the novel in the first place. I will take a single fleshed out love interest tied closely to the plot for their own reasons (not because the MC is their 'twoo luv') any day over a half-dozen characters whose roles in the story could easily be combined into one or two characters.

Cut Cut Cut Cut. 90% of the time, you'll be better for it. On a semi-related note, I tend to prefer no romance at all to even a single interest, because when it's done bad, it hurts to read. I say this as someone who has tried in the past and cringes to read my earliest attempts.
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RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#6
When done well, I think harem can be an enjoyable element.

I had considered pro and cons when I started planning my novel, but dropped the element because I didn't want romance to be the focus. Many isekai stories use this element. Often done badly.

My conclusion, was that in order to be done well as an element, harem needs an in world reason to exist, and the member of the harem need depth, characterization and motives to go after MC. Giving each member a character arc helps.

Examples:
>In our history harems actually existed. The first thing that comes to mind are concubines for kings. But there are also stars that have multiple wives and many guru of religious cults are also known to have, or have had dozens ov wives.
>Anime Sekirei gave an in-world reason for the harem. *spoiler* Sekireis are basically aliens powered by love.
>In Death March each harem member has a caracterization. *spoiler* There is even a 'quest' for MC to get 100 wives begore getting the main girl.
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RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#7
Welcome to RRL QueenDasha, you must be new. haha . this topic comes up once every few weeks. My advice try to look into the genres first then just avoid the thing all together, i avoid anything with tragedy no matter what. it doesn' matter for me if its a good or bad one, basically what i am saying is some genres just aren't compatible with oneself.

That being said, i am a lover of fanservice within otherwise serious stories. it just feels like the story is allowing you to take a long deep breath in before it plunges you right back into the water(story) i love it even more when the fanservice is used in service of the story, and helps to further develop the relationships between the family members and friends and the main characters. this is also a big reason why i just don't like ''grimdark'' stories, the author just tries too hard to make the story as 'dark' (read edgy) as possible and completely forgets that no matter how many bad things happen to people there is jsut bound to be some good moments, and they just can't get it into their thick skulsl that, that helps highlight the dark moments even better and helps makes their stories actually dark (and not edgy)

RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#8
Personally, I am against harems in stories. From what I've seen (at least here on RRL) most of the stories that have the harem tag are just about the MC (normally male) playing 'hide the sausage' with as many people as he possibly can without any real depth to the story itself. If the author can add a legitimate reason for adding a harem into the story (besides wish fulfillment. I've got my own edgy story for that, thank you), then I wouldn't have a problem with it. But as it is now, I normally just ignore any story with that tag in it.
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RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#9
'nasir05' pid='830855' dateline='1512745369' Wrote: this is also a big reason why i just don't like ''grimdark'' stories, the author just tries too hard to make the story as 'dark' (read edgy) as possible and completely forgets that no matter how many bad things happen to people there is jsut bound to be some good moments, and they just can't get it into their thick skulsl that, that helps highlight the dark moments even better and helps makes their stories actually dark (and not edgy)

Ouch, you got me right in the Grimgut. I’m more a fan of making the nice moments and then utterly ruining half them. But I can agree that when a story devolves into torture porn it gets tedious. When a character gets their house burned down, family slaughtered, and teeth knocked out- you should really reconsider kicking their puppy too.

At some point you just have to roll your eyes.
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RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#10
I used to think that I hated overpowered characters until I remembered how much I loved Neil Gaiman's Sandman and the spinoff Lucifer written by Mike Carey. Then I understood that the problem wasn't that the characters were OP, it was that the writing was bad. If you give an OP character a problem big enough to match their powers it becomes a very intetesting story.

Same thing with harems. Re:Lovely doesn't have a harem in it but the main character, a female, does sleep with a large number of women. The thing is that each person the main character gets involved with is very distinctive with their own personalities and backstories. You could easily see each of them as the main character in their own story. Often in harem stories you really get the idea that the writer has never engaged with women outside of internet porn that they are deeply, deeply ashamed of.

So, no, I don't hate harems but quite often the writers are barely able to make their main characters seem interesting and unique, now you want to give them two to five ( TWENTY in the case of the Anita Blake Vampire Hunter series) other characters to work with?
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RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#11
OK, my opinion as an author, who at least use this tag for my story (though readers might rightly argue, that it's actually no harem [yet?]).

While there is no doubt, that harems exist in reality, we should look at it from a fiction perspective. Fictions often reflect desires or thoughts that can't be brought into the own reality, often rightfully so. While the thought of magic is intriguing, we think to know that magic like that doesn't exist: It's probably better this way. Still, it can be fun to think about what would be, if there is a world, where magic is commonplace. Also, it's interesting to think about what someone could do, if they could cast magic.
It doesn't even need something the reader (secretly) wants, it just needs to be something that challenges the imagination and mind in some way, it's a mental exercise that gives humans satisfaction, not unlike physical exercise, which can also be very rewarding, once you get the hang of it.

So the thought of a harem falls into the category. I believe most readers would say, that they don't actually want a harem, but it aligns with some of our inborn desires (being wanted, being admired, being in the center of attention, being capable, being loved, having sex, etc) so this is also intriguing, a new mental exercise. So harem stories are, were, and will be always there, no need to be alarmed about them.

As many people here already pointed out that application of that trope and the quality of the story itself has a huge influence on how they perceive harem stories, I don't think that I need to delve further into that matter.

The real question is, whether you've so much resistance that you can't give those stories a fair chance and should avoid them altogether, or if you want to understand them, but feel overwhelmed by things that you don't like. If you don't think that you'll be good with the trope, there is no reason to feel annoyed or degraded by it, it's OK to dislike something, but taking offense in stories or those who write them isn't worth it. Just be happy, that there are people who work hard to write a story, though you don't like it, and appreciate every story you grow to like even more. ;)

RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#12
I would never read, nor write a 'harem'. In fact, we just used to call it erotic novel back in the day.

There's a difference between 'eroticism serving the greater message of a book' and 'the greater message of a book being eroticism'.

I mean, there is no lack of erotic visual stimulation on the internet... Why would one read a novel about it?

I'm sure it is safer to read an erotic novel in public than watching erotic movies, but still... It's just odd to me.
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RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#13
'Media in Sanity' pid='830898' dateline='1512852363' Wrote: I mean, there is no lack of erotic visual stimulation on the internet... Why would one read a novel about it?

Because written stories are often far more arousing than porn movies or art.

I do find it odd that a writer wouldn't appreciate why some people would prefer reading to watching.
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RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#14
'SJ Reaver' pid='830945' dateline='1513052541' Wrote:
'Media in Sanity' pid='830898' dateline='1512852363' Wrote: I mean, there is no lack of erotic visual stimulation on the internet... Why would one read a novel about it?

Because written stories are often far more arousing than porn movies or art.

I do find it odd that a writer wouldn't appreciate why some people would prefer reading to watching.
Do you find the idea of the MC attracting females and having almost only female companions arousing? Strange, I thought it's just a form of comedy or something..


I get erotica, I do.. but the post isn't about the sexual acts themselves. The idea of having friends mostly of the opposite sex can't be considered erotica.

I might have mixed the terminology, but I meant harem as defined by Oxford.

RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#15
Sigh. Ok. This is gonna be harsh. Trigger warning for the precious snowflakes.

The problem with "harem" genre is that 99,999% of the time it is just wish fulfillment.

The stories where MC has a flock of girls (or boys) fighting each other over his dick becasue "he has a good heart" meanwhile he gets flustered at a mere thought of a date or god forbid a kiss, or is completely oblivous to the fact that the girls want to fuck him is both incredibly annoying and unbelievable. And they keep finding whichever excuses possible to retain status quo.

And the reason the MC never gets it on is that it's written for boys who consider themselves "nice guys" and yet don't get any. Because if the MC got to fuck the girl then the target audience would not be able to relate anymore.

Which is why I don't mind harems in doujins/porn so much - boy meets girls, boy fucks girls, the end. At least there I know the MC is an actual human being acting on his basic desires and not a fucking robot. beep-boop. 
Mind you the porn where girls cry "I'm cumming while your dick is hitting my womb" is still more believable than 99% of "harem" mangas/stories.
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RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#16
'DieEasy' pid='830963' dateline='1513088175' Wrote: Sigh. Ok. This is gonna be harsh. Trigger warning for the precious snowflakes.

The problem with "harem" genre is that 99,999% of the time it is just wish fulfillment.

The stories where MC has a flock of girls (or boys) fighting each other over his dick becasue "he has a good heart" meanwhile he gets flustered at a mere thought of a date or god forbid a kiss, or is completely oblivous to the fact that the girls want to fuck him is both incredibly annoying and unbelievable. And they keep finding whichever excuses possible to retain status quo.

And the reason the MC never gets it on is that it's written for boys who consider themselves "nice guys" and yet don't get any. Because if the MC got to fuck the girl then the target audience would not be able to relate anymore.

Which is why I don't mind harems in doujins/porn so much - boy meets girls, boy fucks girls, the end. At least there I know the MC is an actual human being acting on his basic desires and not a fucking robot. beep-boop. 
Mind you the porn where girls cry "I'm cumming while your dick is hitting my womb" is still more believable than 99% of "harem" mangas/stories.

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RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#17
'Rebel Lion' pid='830965' dateline='1513091300' Wrote: https://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/fac...ulture.jpg

And proud of it [th_113_.gif]
Goddesses are out of Heroes, so it's up to Me to Save an Isekai World! -  Even outside of Japan no one is safe from being reincarnated to become a hero in a fantasy world. And while our hero was ready to become the typical hero he was meant to be, things start out not even close to how he would have hoped.

Tales from a fantasy world - A fantasy land with dragons and foxes and psychotic girls that worship cat Goddesses.

RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#18
'DieEasy' pid='830963' dateline='1513088175' Wrote: Sigh. Ok. This is gonna be harsh. Trigger warning for the precious snowflakes.

The problem with "harem" genre is that 99,999% of the time it is just wish fulfillment.

The stories where MC has a flock of girls (or boys) fighting each other over his dick becasue "he has a good heart" meanwhile he gets flustered at a mere thought of a date or god forbid a kiss, or is completely oblivous to the fact that the girls want to fuck him is both incredibly annoying and unbelievable. And they keep finding whichever excuses possible to retain status quo.

And the reason the MC never gets it on is that it's written for boys who consider themselves "nice guys" and yet don't get any. Because if the MC got to fuck the girl then the target audience would not be able to relate anymore.
While I lack your vast knowledge in the fields of hentai, porn and djsomething, I think your comment is pure gold..

RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#19
I find the notion of harem novel but unrealistic. I mean having one significant other requires alot of time and effort to maintain. Then you have these MCs that have women/men throwing themselves at them hoping to be apart of their harem regardless of who is already there. The only semi-realistic harem that could work is Creation - Path of a God due to the fact he just creates his harem members out of nothing to be loyal to him. Even then mostly all relationships in a harem are very shallow in any story I've read. I do enjoy reading relationships that are built with only two members because you will get to see the ups and downs of it.

Long story short, I will read a novel with a harem in it but I'd prefer to read a story with two members. If it's going to have sexual content then I will only read it if it is not man on man. Nothing against a gay relationship just rather not read about their sex life.

RE: 'Harems' - what's your opinion?

#20
'DieEasy' pid='830963' dateline='1513088175' Wrote: Sigh. Ok. This is gonna be harsh. Trigger warning for the precious snowflakes.

The problem with "harem" genre is that 99,999% of the time it is just wish fulfillment.

The stories where MC has a flock of girls (or boys) fighting each other over his dick becasue "he has a good heart" meanwhile he gets flustered at a mere thought of a date or god forbid a kiss, or is completely oblivous to the fact that the girls want to fuck him is both incredibly annoying and unbelievable. And they keep finding whichever excuses possible to retain status quo.

And the reason the MC never gets it on is that it's written for boys who consider themselves "nice guys" and yet don't get any. Because if the MC got to fuck the girl then the target audience would not be able to relate anymore.

this... and also most of them are written baaaadly, very badly. Unless it's for the comedy i actively avoid it no matter how interesting the story sounds. It speaks to me much about the author itself and i lose any faith that the rest of the work wouldn't be trash. Have to be very bored to try a serious read on harem. I have nothing against it when it is just hints and it is so far away from the plot that it's just mentioned only once every few chapters and makes for interesting interactions. In the few cases where that is the case, harem tag is not even present and it's really thought out with complex personalities and reasons, not in the heart of the story or the only defining traits of the characters.